Aoife Dunican, aka "The Stylebob"

Note guest is Aoife Dunican. Aoife is an Irish name and is pronounced Effa.

Intro music plays quietly behind first 1 minute.

00:00:02 Áine Maguire

Welcome to the 37%. This is a show that invites people to reflect on a significant career leadership or life decision. My name is Áine Maguire

00:00:13 Susy Kennefick

and my name is Susy Kennefick

00:00:14 Áine Maguire

On our show we asked our guests about what led to a decision why they made it, how it was made and what happened next.

00:00:23 Susy Kennefick

Hi Áine. how are you?

00:00:25 Áine Maguire

All good Susy again today.

00:00:26 Susy Kennefick

Good, welcome to another episode of the 37% So can you tell us a little bit about our guest for today.

00:00:39Áine Maguire

I can indeed Aoife Dunican AKA Style Bob is someone I've known for a while and an amazing lady like all our guests. And Aoife runs her own business. She is an image consultant and a motivational speaker. Aoife is an amazing lady with a story that resonates, I think, and kind of aligns with some of our other guests, but also has some new themes. Will we jump into the story?

00:00:57Susy Kennefick

Yes I think people will find it intriguing.

00:01:00Susy Kennefick

And if, if nothing else, they might be compelled, as I am, to hire Aoife to come into my bedroom and overhaul my wardrobe from top to bottom. So yeah, without much, much further ado, let's let's dive in.

00:01:15Áine Maguire

Aoife you're so welcome

00:01:16Áine Maguire

Welcome and thank you so much for coming. And it's always.

00:01:18Áine Maguire

A pleasure to see you

00:01:18Aoife Dunican

Afternoon Áine and Susy and when you mentioned there about image consultant, you can imagine how many people I scare at a dinner party when they say what do you do? I'm the first time thinking. Oh God, she's looking at.

00:01:30Aoife Dunican

What I'm wearing, yeah.

00:01:32Aoife Dunican

Lovely to be here. And what a journey.

00:01:34Aoife Dunican

And I have been on.

00:01:36Aoife Dunican

And I suppose if I if I take it back because how I got from kind of here or from there to now and I grew up on the youngest of seven, I'm from farm at home. And I came along as I don't call myself the Barbie at the end. But if you think about Barbie having lots of different clothes, 

my sisters.

00:01:57Aoife Dunican

Three of them just thought. Ohh gosh, there's this girl. She came out of the womb with

00:02:01Aoife Dunican

Bob and we are going to make her lots of clothes. And it wasn't just clothes. It was clothes at at a very detailed high level standard. So we talk about made to measure and couture and my 7th birthday party had a taffeta dress with hoops. And yes, and my mother and had me standing at the top of the stairs.

00:02:22Aoife Dunican

When I arrived at the bottom and and everything was at that level and, 

00:02:29Aoife Dunican

One of my earliest memories, I suppose was aged 9 and Lady Diana was getting married and my two sisters went over to London to look at the dress and display and came back and created it and there was a version of it, 22 pieces of boning in the bustier alone. So it was one of those things where everything was done at a level. 

00:02:50Aoife Dunican

If there was a birthday party of mine, uh, there was China. There was Holly Hobby and, you know, tins and my father one day had to sit against a cooker because it was a guitar tin in the oven and the oven door wouldn't close

00:03:05Aoife Dunican

So he sat there for two to three hours, you know, with the cake baking. So everything was always done at that very high level when it came to clothes and art. And just to say, I cant sew a button, but I can. But, you know, I learned about cut and, you know, fabrics and all those.

00:03:18Áine Maguire

Yes.

00:03:24Aoife Dunican

From a very early age, given that we lived in a very small town, but my sister's travelled, you know they were the the 80s when you had to leave Ireland and travel.

00:03:32Aoife Dunican

So they were bringing back all these beautiful fabrics and exposing me to it as well. And even when one sister went to New York for four years, you know, I remember getting the first vogue where Anna Wintour, put jeans with the with the blazer and no one did that, you know, and to be sitting in Westmeath going wow, I I could do that so.

00:03:52Aoife Dunican

And then my, my, my runway was the Catholic Church every Sunday morning mass, I had a different outfit every week and not because I own lots of clothes. I had a way of putting things.

00:04:02Aoife Dunican

Together and like borrow and steal from my sisters as well, it's.

00:04:06Susy Kennefick

So nice the way you describe that influence, you know very early on growing up in the home and that being clearly a shared passion amongst the family. And I know certainly my own experience is always been quite inspired. And maybe influenced by my older sisters, are you still all very much?

00:04:22Susy Kennefick

Into the into style and into fashion is that it's still a very shared family passion?

00:04:27Aoife Dunican

Well, we're very different style personalities and there's days with my hand and my hips and say that's it you're not wearing that.

00:04:34Aoife Dunican

We we do.

00:04:35Aoife Dunican

All share a passion for very good cuts of clothes. My sister. I took her to the Chanel Exhibition in London.

00:04:42Aoife Dunican

And and she was down in all fours, looking at the seam work. I'm not sure the security mental.

00:04:45Áine Maguire

Wow.

00:04:47Aoife Dunican

That's what she.

00:04:48Aoife Dunican

Was doing but she was there and she said and she. I listened to her for a minute and the narrative and how, you know, Coco Chanel put that together. She knew exactly. And it was lovely to see that, that passion in her 60s was still there. So we still.

00:05:03Aoife Dunican

Have the love of clothes.

00:05:05Aoife Dunican

Yes, I would be the one, I suppose that they would have come to in the past to see what what are we going to wear. But we have different style personalities. But like I said we we we do share a love of cut

00:05:17Susy Kennefick

It's still there, but you didn't take a start out in the out in the fashion world you took somewhat of a circuitous route to get there. And you were telling us a bit about your story there. So. So take us.

00:05:25Susy Kennefick

Back how did you actually get here?

00:05:27Aoife Dunican

Here I never thought of doing anything with fashion only because what probably held me back was that I could hardly sew a button and I thought, well, I can't go into design, so I'm not going to do that. And I don't really want to work in a shop.

00:05:42Aoife Dunican

And so it was. Never, ever something that I that I was going to so I studied marketing.

00:05:47Aoife Dunican

I did a wonderful graduate programme with the Irish trade, but at the time I went on to work with telecoms and then I had three children and I gave up work after my three children. But at that time I did do a volunteer.

00:06:02Aoife Dunican

Programe Dress for Success

00:06:03Aoife Dunican

Dress for Success is a not-for-profit organisation that works with women, maybe who might not have the best deal of cards in life and want to get back working again. And I'll never forget they'd come in to the office. They'd get wonderful coaching, but we'd also give them some clothes to wear and just at that moment in time.

00:06:24Aoife Dunican

They could put on a jacket and their shoulders would go back and you could see by them going, gosh, I actually might get this interview. I might have a chance.

00:06:33Aoife Dunican

To have a life again and seeing that for me was just really inspiring. And then if I think of my own circumstances taking a seven-year career break out and your confidence goes. You think you can never do anything again. You're at home with the children and I got an opportunity to go work in professional services for three months.

00:06:55Aoife Dunican

And I thought, you know what, what can go wrong?

00:06:58Aoife Dunican

And that's where I walked into the office. I was absolutely terrified. But I booted and suited myself to look and feel confident. And at the end of the first week, this lady I met this lady from my department on the train and she said to me, how was your first week? And I said it was awful, and the company were were wonderful to work for.

00:07:19Aoife Dunican

And she said why? I said because you know what? I haven't worked in seven years and I didn't know that when the photocopier broke, you didn't call out you, you kicked it. You didn't know all these things. I didn't know. Diaries were electronic. So I just felt so inadequate. And she said, but everyone in the office said you, I was so confident that.

00:07:39Aoife Dunican

I was swanning around the place looking as if I I knew what I was doing, so that famous Ted talk where it's fake it till you make it. When you listened to that again and listened to the the the lady you spoke about it. She said you fake it until you become it. And that's what I did.

00:07:55Aoife Dunican

And certainly going back to Deloitte, a very important word, and I use this word so much when someone says, you know, what does it mean to dress somebody? And I said to dress somebody is to actually make them relevant and obviously confident. But when I was in Deloitte and I could be with the team of people, maybe 20 years younger than me.

00:08:15Aoife Dunican

And my first meeting actually with the markeitng agency and back in the old days, the marketing agencies and we might have our our black suits on and this gentleman came in in white leather trousers and I thought, Oh my God.

00:08:27Aoife Dunican

That's.

00:08:27Aoife Dunican

That's very trendy, but I was there modernly dressed.

00:08:31Aoife Dunican

And it felt that I had a right to have a place at the table because people looked at me in that modern way. Given that I was 20 years older. So the clothes gave me the relevance and the relevance made my mind relevant. So there's a whole package. So that was really important for me.

00:08:47Áine Maguire

So you launch yourself back into the career world with the clothes and the shoulder.

00:08:52Áine Maguire

pads or whatever and what happened then? Your confidence grew obviously.

00:08:56Susy

00:08:57Aoife Dunican

I thought it was great. Yeah, I'm. I'm back. And I worked in the People's Department and we were just about to go into our 4th

00:09:06Aoife Dunican

Year of hiring 180 graduates and we had a very successful year of of winning graduate of the year and I was just about to turn 46 and I thought, oh gosh, another year, same old, same old and.

00:09:20Aoife Dunican

I obviously had to speak to somebody and Áine and I came in contact and I was an unusual person, probably Áine going going in to see you at the time and we did all the analysis. And I remember having this conversation with you that, you know, gosh, Áine there is this this course I'm

00:09:39Aoife Dunican

Thinking about it, I think it sounds a bit crazy, but I'd love to work in fashion, but I don't want to work in fashion. I want to work on the impact of fashion.

00:09:47Aoife Dunican

And we have spoken a little bit about it and but a big question that you asked me which was a deciding factor because we did, maybe you know four or five sessions.

00:09:57Aoife Dunican

Was in a years' time. If you're still in the same job, what would you have thought? Like, what would you be thinking? Would you be saying? Oh, I'm so glad now I I did that, you know, career consultation. But I'm now happy to still be here. And I thought of a years time I thought of being older as well because not that you can change your career to 65 you can change at any time.

00:10:17Aoife Dunican

But the image business you know is a relatively young business and

00:10:22Aoife Dunican

I thought a year's time that was a big question for me and I thought.

00:10:27Aoife Dunican

God, if I'm here in a years time, I'm just going to ... I've got. Ohh. Why didn't I do that? I'd have so much regret, you know, kind of cut off the year type of thing. And I went off to London. I did the course and I thought that was lovely. And I came back thinking I was just going to, you know, just kind of go back to my old world.

00:10:47Aoife Dunican

But.

00:10:48Aoife Dunican

Áine did ask me, a very scary thing at the time you asked. Would I speak to maybe 30 women in your firm or the people that you've worked with before? And if anybody wants to lose weight, go do that. Because I'm sitting there in front of you going. Yeah, that's no problem. Oh, my God. And.

00:11:08Aoife Dunican

This is the big thing about anything to do with the change of career or looking for a promotion is that you do need to say yes and work it out later because that's what I did. You asked me to do it. I have what am I going to say to these people?

00:11:22Aoife Dunican

and I stood up. We did the talk, and I remember at the time thinking that my world, because I was still working for my my current employer. What I was saying was irrelevant, but that night prove that it wasn't irrelevant. It was really important to these women and.

00:11:42Aoife Dunican

That was a moment where actually something that I could do here.

00:11:46Aoife Dunican

There could actually have a massive impact. Also, what was going on in the company I was working for at the same.

00:11:52Aoife Dunican

Time as that.

00:11:53Aoife Dunican

We were bringing.

00:11:55Aoife Dunican

In a lot of people for personal and professional development, and I always felt the missing piece with some of these men and women was the clothes and confidence because I could.

00:12:06Aoife Dunican

Totally see a woman come into your.

00:12:09Aoife Dunican

Irrespective of size or irrespective of gender or anything like this. But when she or he loves something, they were wearing, the shoulders went back and they could just feel really confident and then I could see somebody else walk into a room and they would be hunched in and they just wouldn't have.

00:12:30Aoife Dunican

That I suppose vibe you could say. And they could be really, really beautiful. But the confidence wasn't there. And I thought I could really work with these people

00:12:36Áine Maguire

So so that that evening in my office with 30 women, that was proof of concept.

00:12:43Aoife Dunican

That was proof of concept because they all started to form these queue this queue

00:12:47Áine Maguire

I was just gonna ask you what do?

00:12:48Áine Maguire

You remember from that evening?

00:12:49Áine Maguire

It was, it was. It was very interesting.

00:12:51Aoife Dunican

Yeah.

00:12:52Aoife Dunican

I thought I was Robbie Williams.

00:12:54Aoife Dunican

There's people forming a queue. Uh, I thought. Gosh, what I said must have been very interesting. And I did remember saying something that was, I thought, I'm going to be absolutely annihilated for this. But I just said if we look good, we feel good. If we feel good, we are unstoppable. And that's a quite a big thing to say because I didn't want to just attached to appearance.

00:13:15Aoife Dunican

Want to attach to lots of other things but.

00:13:18Aoife Dunican

When they were queuing up, and really interested in what I had to say and it it was, it was a pinch me moment. It really was because I didn't realise all the knowledge I had and that knowledge is is a build up of so many years and I didn't realise that my knowledge was useful and impactful.

00:13:39Aoife Dunican

That was the important thing. I felt fantastic afterwards, but.

00:13:43Aoife Dunican

It did bring me to.

00:13:44Aoife Dunican

To a door that's half closed or half open, I should say, because do you fully open that door now and walk through, or do you just stay there where you're not getting quite through the door, but you have to decide.

00:13:58Susy Kennefick

So what did you do, did you walk through the door?

00:13:59Aoife Dunican

It took a while. I went back to my work and then that's where the real hard work came in

00:14:06Aoife Dunican

And then I mean, I worked four days a week and I used every Friday to work and I worked for free and I worked with women and I would come to their house. I would stay for four hours and I would go through their wardrobes and I would work with them. And I didn't realise how much of the work was quite emotional.

00:14:23Aoife Dunican

You know, and I just kept doing this and then I decided to make the big decision to leave and that was around August 2019. And then I'm just coasting a bit. I'm kind of enjoying, not really  on garden leave, but you're kind of going, gosh, I've just kids are just back in school. I'm going to take, you know, a few weeks out.

00:14:43Aoife Dunican

And then I started to get some interesting speaking gigs, which I never thought be a side of my business. And I just got my first big after, you know, keynote speech in January. And then COVID happened. So I was just starting and then it was all of a sudden.

00:15:01Aoife Dunican

You know, at the time I thought, oh, gosh, this is this is over.

00:15:05Áine Maguire

Could have been a hammer blow

00:15:06Susy Kennefick

And how did COVID impact on the growth of the business?

00:15:09Aoife Dunican

So I would say COVID grew my business three times quicker than it would probably would have taken in an organic way. And so when you know the.

00:15:16Susy Kennefick

OK, interesting. Yeah.

00:15:21Aoife Dunican

that famous 11th March came and Leo said we're we're all staying at home. You know, I said OK. Curtains. That's it. I'm sitting at home and I'll never forget. I got a Facebook Messenger coming through saying Aoife we are from the pharmaceutical company down in Kildare and we are a little.

00:15:39Aoife Dunican

bit bored and we need a bit of cheering up Could you come on next Friday and give us a little talk? And they said a thing called Zoom, what is Zoom? So I just rock up on the Friday and you can understand the technology back then and we all at home scan for for Wi-Fi. And I did this and.

00:15:58Aoife Dunican

They said, you know, they.

00:15:59Aoife Dunican

Thank you. That was so impactful. So if I I then got another call to do this, but I had a wonderful gentleman pull me aside one time before I was about to do a talk and he said to me, OK, if you're going to be a professional speaker.

00:16:14Aoife Dunican

Virtually, these are the three things you need to do and he got me set up with with my mic. He got me set up with my visuals. He got me set up with so many things and I was so grateful to that man actually because he made me become, I suppose, a speaker in your living room to a professional set up now I still.

00:16:34Aoife Dunican

Have my son's Wi-Fi.

00:16:35Aoife Dunican

not Wi-Fi. PlayStation to my left I was still surrounded by all this stuff, but it certainly brought me up to that level. So if I speed up the process in that, I got to speak in 12 different countries in three well, those two years of being at home

00:16:51Aoife Dunican

It meant that my voice could go internationally and how long would that have taken if you were still back in a situation where you were speaking face to face? Did I enjoy it and it was lovely wearing leggings in the bottom and having your nice top on. And of course, on this people in the room. But I really learned to navigate a virtual

00:17:12Aoife Dunican

room and that really good way, but still time my business was I started dressing people virtually and that's where someone came to me one day and said look, I know you don't do this, but can you look at my wardrobe, I live in New York and I did. And then I brought into my own app and I use my app to dress people. So would that have happened? I think if there was no pandemic.

00:17:33Aoife Dunican

And the pandemic was a horrendous time.

00:17:35Aoife Dunican

And.

00:17:36Aoife Dunican

So many awful things happened, but certainly from my business it was really important and it put me on, I suppose, an international stage.

00:17:45Áine Maguire

And what did you

00:17:46Áine Maguire

Fall back on when you were doing those things that you know gig for me and the and the and the other engagements.

00:17:53Áine Maguire

You spoke about.

00:17:54Áine Maguire

Was were you going back to that girl?

00:17:56Áine Maguire

standing at the top of the stairs and the taffeta, the hooped dress?

00:18:00Aoife Dunican

A little bit.

00:18:01Aoife Dunican

About that, because that was where I learned about presence and how to teach presence. And I also forgot to say, and maybe I've spoken to about this Áine, I used to work for Joan Collins back in 1995. I spent a summer working for Joan Collins.

00:18:17Susy Kennefick

The Joan Collins?

Aoife Dunican

The Joan Collins, Yes

00:18:21Susy Kennefick

That might be the most impressive thing you've told us so far

00:18:23Aoife Dunican

Yeah. Sorry I should have said that at the start. She's like you forgetting about that.

00:18:26Aoife Dunican

Yeah, and I.

00:18:27Aoife Dunican

Remember it was 95. I was.

00:18:30Aoife Dunican

My gosh, was that 24.

00:18:32Aoife Dunican

25 at the time

00:18:32Aoife Dunican

And and you talk that doing everything at a high level. So you're you're there in San Tropez It's just sound like glamorous and Joan Collins and all her, you know, beautiful clothes.

00:18:43Aoife Dunican

And I remember Roger Moore came to stay. I'm really name dropping now

00:18:48Aoife Dunican

You are sorry? Yeah, there is celebrities, I should say. I used to dress, but no. So anyway, I used to bring in so his his, you know, morning refreshments. And I remember he was always beautifully dressed. I mean, it was, you know, James Bond and.

00:18:48Áine Maguire

Finally, celebrities podcast.

00:19:06Aoife Dunican

I said to in the morning. Mr. Moore, you're.

00:19:09Aoife Dunican

You know, you just you look.

00:19:10Susy

So, well, every morning I.

00:19:11Aoife Dunican

Was really what I was trying to say is.

00:19:13Aoife Dunican

is there a need.

00:19:13Aoife Dunican

For looking so well every morning, you know you're just and he said always be ready.

00:19:19Aoife Dunican

And I thought yes, because it's like  buy the outfit the opportunity will come

00:19:24Aoife Dunican

you know.

00:19:25Aoife Dunican

Be something fabulous will will happen now, I always say when you wear something fabulous and that's that's putting it lightly. But I remember, you know, Miss Collins, as we called her at the time, which is floating, she was a rather small lady, but her presence.

00:19:38Aoife Dunican

And she just always act like she's the most important person in the room, which could have been the case at the time. But shoulders were back, and I actually bumped into her this year, and I was in London. I bumped into her accidentally in a department store, and she did turn 90 the week later, and she was still shopping to go down. Yeah.

00:19:54Áine Maguire

Wow.

00:19:57Áine Maguire

Amazing.

00:19:58Aoife Dunican

Unbelievable. So I I lots of things you know that not saying that was a very important part for making my decision. It was seeing the power of presence.

00:20:08Aoife Dunican

seeing how that first 7 seconds. How you can actually influence others, but the influence is always to yourself first. So as I always say, when I get dressed in the morning, who am I influencing? I have to influence myself to get into a good mood. And secondly, who am

00:20:22Aoife Dunican

I meeting?

00:20:23Susy Kennefick

You Referenced that that I think it's Amy Cuddy, that speaker.

00:20:26Aoife Dunican

Amy yes, that's her name, yeah.

00:20:27Susy Kennefick

Start talking. She talks about.

00:20:28Susy Kennefick

You can't tell me.

00:20:29Susy Kennefick

It occurs to me as you talk that maybe there isn't really any such thing as making it that that that fear, and that doubt is with you all the time. But if you can learn to reframe it as as excitement and as motivation that that's that's really what's key to it. But would you say that maybe another dimension to the fake it till you make it idea is using clothes as armour using them as

00:20:49Susy Kennefick

You know, I suppose something to protect yourself and to give yourself that extra extra boost?

00:20:55Aoife Dunican

Mentioned Barbie twice in the same podcast, but if you look back at the history of Barbie

00:21:02Aoife Dunican

And I'm not saying we go and put on a white coat or a doctor, but the whole thing was you could be what you want by putting out these clothes, which is I know very, bit too straightforward. But that piece is that you can be lots of different people. By the clothes that you wear. And I learned this.

00:21:22Aoife Dunican

Age 4 from my father, who wore lots of hats. He was the farmer. He was the auctioneer. He was involved in ploughing and he was involved in racing. He was involved in.

00:21:32Aoife Dunican

GAA and I knew every time I saw my dad leave the house, what he was going to.

00:21:38Susy

Hmm.

00:21:38Aoife Dunican

Because a certain outfit was it to be the friendly farmer today, you know? Was he be to be the trustable auctioneer It was all these things and I knew also sometimes his accent would even change depending on where he was going so.

00:21:56Aoife Dunican

I think that.

00:21:57Aoife Dunican

The clothes word is always king, but I I talk a lot about the ABC of image where the appearance bit is our grooming and you know our clothes. The behaviour is how we are as a person, how inclusive we are, how kind we are and our communication pieces are nonverbal. You know our body language, our tone of voice.

00:22:17Aoife Dunican

It's all three put together is what gives the impact, but you can I, you know, I know myself. I'm at home and I might have to stand up in front of 200 people and I'm at home and I'm thinking, Oh my God, how am I going to do this? Especially with the webinar, I could get up in the morning. I've had a bad night's sleep and I have 4 red tops because red is the colour of energy and passion.

00:22:37Aoife Dunican

And the minute the top goes on, I know I can do it and and I feel the energy. It is a uniform.

00:22:44Aoife Dunican

It's like the.

00:22:45Aoife Dunican

Guard. I'm sure the guard when he goes home or or she goes home and takes on and off the uniform. You know it's it's very different. And actually I remember doing an interview about the new Garda uniform and I was talking to this gentleman.

00:22:56Aoife Dunican

And he said to me, do you know what?

00:22:58Aoife Dunican

I kind of.

00:22:58Aoife Dunican

Miss in away all the lovely you.

00:23:02Aoife Dunican

Know the lovely jackets that.

00:23:03Aoife Dunican

big felt Blazers. He got kind of missed and he said I kind of felt important.

00:23:04Áine Maguire

Yes, the tailor

00:23:08Aoife Dunican

So definitely when you it is a.

00:23:10Aoife Dunican

Cloak of armour, yeah.

00:23:12Susy Kennefick

You did say that that, you know, somewhat unusually, perhaps COVID actually gave you your business.

00:23:12Susy

Yeah.

00:23:19Susy Kennefick

Quite a boost.

00:23:20Susy Kennefick

But I wonder, do you think that one of perhaps negative impacts of COVID is that people have started to dress a lot more casually because they're in the office less?

00:23:28Susy Kennefick

They're working from home. There just seems to be a move away from the traditional suit and business attire type of tradition, and you're seeing people turn up to to work. It has to be said in all sorts. Practically leggings at this stage.

00:23:43Susy Kennefick

Well, tell me your thoughts on that

00:23:44Aoife Dunican

Well, that period has been known as the great slobbererfication.

00:23:50Aoife Dunican

Like like over. If it's well, let's face it. We all got a little bit casual pyjamas and all those things and all I know I'll tell you first what the impact it had on me because you know you've nowheret to go except Tesco's. I mean, this is a day out and I'm I really going to, you know, put on you know, a suit for Tesco's.

00:24:09Aoife Dunican

So.

00:24:10Aoife Dunican

I said no, the impacted me, just really not caring a little bit and just I found I I was. Although at all this time to do things I wasn't as.

00:24:19Aoife Dunican

Active and and you know, good as I would normally would be because I was just kind of slouching around the house. I think it was changing anyway before COVID. If you think of Facebook here, we've all the the big firms in in Ireland.

00:24:34Aoife Dunican

The tech industry did make it more casual, and if you look at what was going on in the US, you have, I think Morgan Stanley was the last company to say, OK, you're now you're allowed. Now where chinos and everything else

00:24:47Aoife Dunican

I actually, if I'm being totally honest, I think it's great to be casual, but I don't think it should go too much the other way because I know myself I am not going to be effective in a hoodie. I'm not, you know, I certainly won't be communicating or out with my clients in a hoodie. It's not going to give me the confidence. I don't want to also be.

00:25:08Aoife Dunican

Wrapped up in the suits, we were of of old and I had a a great analogy a few weeks ago where a woman came up to.

00:25:16Aoife Dunican

Me and said Aoife isn't it wonderful we all have this choice now called smart casual. And I said I've dressed over 100 women and not one of them would say that on the basis that in the old days when it was a little bit more formal.

00:25:28Aoife Dunican

It was easier

00:25:28Aoife Dunican

because smart casual is how smart are you? How casual are you? And I do have a rule around that or or a guideline.

00:25:36Aoife Dunican

But what makes you feel your best? For me it's not going around all day in a pair of leggings. I don't get the work done. I don't feel as confident. Having said that, it's great that I can now You know where I think it's great. You can wear jeans to work. And I think that is good. Depending on your environment.

00:25:54Aoife Dunican

But you've got to remember that clothes are a wonderful form of respect, and you can go into an interview. And I I've spoke to students about this and you could go in and you could have a PhD. She could have a pH. D and somebody could go in sloppily dressed. And what happens is that you've immediately lost the interview even.

00:26:12Aoife Dunican

Though your word is King

00:26:14Aoife Dunican

So I do think think of clothes as your armour Think of it as a confidence piece, think of as a, as a form of respect. Think of it for self-expression. That's what I do love. Now, compared to years ago, we all to wear black and Navy. One form of self-expression and how you feel on the inside. Your clothes should demonstrate how you feel on the inside.

00:26:34Áine Maguire

So go back to the decision for us. So the decision that emerged from all those, umm, seminal moments you've taken us through, where is it taking you to Aoife and if you could be tell us personally and business wise it would be really interesting to hear it

00:26:48Aoife Dunican

I suppose from a personal point of view, I've kind of shocked myself if that makes sense.

00:26:54Aoife Dunican

in that

00:26:55Aoife Dunican

 I didn't know that if you said to me three years ago you will be working for these kind of companies, you will be working for departments stores  you would be asked to stand up. I I would have said, yeah, right. OK. And so it has surprised me what But what has really surprised me in a positive way.

00:27:16Aoife Dunican

Is that when I look back at what I've done, I know.

00:27:19Aoife Dunican

I.

00:27:20Aoife Dunican

Can do what I'm about to do because I've done what I've done and so now I'm not really afraid of anything that only has come with experience and ticking boxes. It's like when you set up a business, you say I'm now going to be.

00:27:23Áine Maguire

Hmm.

00:27:36Aoife Dunican

An image consultant and I am going to dress people tomorrow and this is going to be my business

00:27:41Aoife Dunican

I never had the speaking business at all as part of the mix a little bit, but nothing, nothing major.

00:27:49Áine Maguire

And it's it's the mainstay now.

00:27:51Aoife Dunican

It's probably would be my main bread and butter, but I, you know, mentor might say to me, gosh Aoife if you just go speak all the time, I have to keep it real. If I I get a huge personal amount of

00:28:01Aoife Dunican

Satisfaction from dressing women and men.

00:28:04Aoife Dunican

I really do and I don't think I could keep myself real and grounded if it wasn't for doing that. It likes a a doctor deciding I'm not going to treat patients anymore. I'm just going to to talk about it. So it's it's surprised that the the the surprise for me is that I'm not scared of anything anymore. Was I used to be very, very scared of something.

00:28:26Aoife Dunican

And one of the things as well is and you said this to me before Áine that I'm an on the spot thinker, which scares an awful lot of people and it scares me. But what it means is that when I stand up to speak without physical notes, I will of course have guidelines through my slides or whatever. That is scary. But it's how I work.

00:28:47Aoife Dunican

When I go into people's wardrobes and I see, Oh my God, a whole wardrobe full of clothes and I think, Oh my God, how am I gonna? How am I going to make this work? So my first 5 minutes is we're gonna look out and next minute it all works was in the early days. I can't tell you I'd have two days of fear going into that.

00:29:04Áine Maguire

Goodness.

00:29:04Aoife Dunican

Because I'm like, well, what if I go in and I can't find anything and not in all these things, whereas now I know, OK, the first 5 minutes are going to be awful, and then it's actually all you, you know, you, you you get you the charge will happen. So that's a bit scary to be honest, but that's how I work.

00:29:24Áine Maguire

So you are your business.

00:29:27Aoife Dunican

I am my business which in one way is exhausting in another way I get to, I suppose control it.

00:29:36Aoife Dunican

In a way, but I get.

00:29:37Aoife Dunican

To own the narrative of my business and I get to, I suppose. Say what Style Bob does and it is about the confidence business. So I used to say this is the difference between starting a business on year one versus has been in the business in year 4. Is that in year 1 you can somewhat not belittle your business

00:29:57Aoife Dunican

But you know, I could sit beside you at a dinner party in year 1 and say someone says, what do you do? And I say, oh, I just dress people. And now in year 4, I sit there and.

00:30:07Aoife Dunican

I say change people's lives

00:30:07Aoife Dunican

LSo that's because I have gone through the process of working with women and men and seeing the.

00:30:14Aoife Dunican

Impact that it's had.

00:30:15Susy Kennefick

Have have you seen that that self-confidence and that self knowledge that you've just described there, have you seen that impact in how you make decisions now in your business everyday?

00:30:25Aoife Dunican

Yes. In that I say yes to very scary things.

00:30:30Susy Kennefick

Well, yeah. I mean you said yes to the original big decision, which was to move into this and start your own business in the 1st place. And I suppose with that what we always ask as a guest is would you do it all again or would you do it differently?

00:30:42Aoife Dunican

I'd do it minus COVID maybe, I dont know if I would want to go back to that

00:30:44Susy Kennefick

It sounds Covid actually served

00:30:46Susy Kennefick

Bit of an advantage to you?

00:30:47Aoife Dunican

Yeah, it.

00:30:48Aoife Dunican

It was an advantage. What what I do is, of course I do it all again. I think though you get to a business where when it's only you and you've built it on you on your knowledge, on your brand, it it can be overpowering and it can be exhausting.

00:31:04Aoife Dunican

And then it's how you scale it up without losing the personal branding piece because.

00:31:12Aoife Dunican

It's really important. I'm touchy feely on so many things and what I didn't realise about this business is that it's actually very little to do with clothes that it's all to.

00:31:21Aoife Dunican

Do with people.

00:31:22Aoife Dunican

And clothes. I can go into someone's, you know, personal space to their bedroom for three to four hours and the first hour is nothing to do with clothes.

00:31:32Aoife Dunican

Because I need to get trust, I also need to see why I'm really there I want

00:31:37Aoife Dunican

To work with that person, and when I started the business too, this is what happens actually, by the way, just this is a really good piece of advice. If anyone has done the course, uh in terms of changing their career. So I went off and did my starting course. So I came back and I said OK, no one should wear black except.

00:31:52Aoife Dunican

1 in 4 people, everyone.

00:31:54Aoife Dunican

Should have a Bob.

00:31:57Aoife Dunican

and you need XYZ and this is it and I thought this is cookie cutter this I just go and do this and the reality is you know if I told somebody that they couldn't wear black, I think that that that's not a good thing to say. So I now have to really work with the person that I am given. I have to really work with their style personality.

00:32:16Aoife Dunican

I always say there's no such thing as good taste. Bad taste is your taste. But at the start I said no, no, you have to do this  XY and Z. That's not how it works. It really isn't. So I always say your plan has to be bendable and elastic because that's what my plan so far has been this.

00:32:36Aoife Dunican

And I don't know in a year's time what way it's going to go, but I am at a stage now with the business where I can actually say I like this. I don't like this.

00:32:45Aoife Dunican

But you have to.

00:32:46Aoife Dunican

Go through all the stuff

00:32:47Aoife Dunican

Yeah, you've got to go.

00:32:49Aoife Dunican

Through everything, and my mother said.

00:32:51Aoife Dunican

To me, years ago, you got to sort.

00:32:53Aoife Dunican

Through the rubbish.

00:32:54Áine Maguire

You do.

00:32:54Aoife Dunican

And that's the hard nights, that is, you know, I was saying to to Áine International's Women's Week, for me, you know, I gave 7 talks. It was a really gruelling week.

00:33:05Aoife Dunican

But that's what you do because that's the week that's presented to you. And but I think people say no to a lot of things thinking that they cannot do it. I know absolutely I would not have said yes to 200 people four years ago. No, I'm not going to do that. Now, having said that. I said yes to 250 has maybe that's not much of a difference, but.

00:33:25Aoife Dunican

You have to say yes, your plan has to be elastic and you also have to get over yourself. Sorry. You do have to go on social media. You have to do it. And by the way, nobody cares about you.

00:33:35Áine Maguire

Yes, that's true.

00:33:38Áine Maguire

So do you have a vision for?

00:33:40Áine Maguire

For the future of the business.

00:33:42Aoife Dunican

Less Aoife. Less Aoife more Bob

00:33:45Aoife Dunican

The future of the business I I'm really confident that the business works and I need to get it to a stage where it's not overpowering me, so a waiting list to work with me may sound exciting, but sometimes that can keep me awake at night.

00:34:02Aoife Dunican

because I want to please everybody and I want to do all these things, so I would love, what I love about the speaking side of my business is that I can reach lots of people

00:34:11Aoife Dunican

and I love getting the messages afterwards where somebody's come to one of my talks and they said you are three tips to ex. Now I've done this and I I love so if I could scale myself up because there's not enough hours in the day to always do one to ones with people there just isn't and I would love to write a book. I have no time.

00:34:32Aoife Dunican

But I would love to write a book and I and there's part of me scared of writing a book, because although I speak now, I hated English in school, so I'm going well, I can't write a book because I hated English in school, so I have to get over myself with lots of things and

00:34:51Aoife Dunican

Yeah, it's, it's we also have imposter syndrome. So there's certain things I still have to get over and that's going to take a bit of time. But I I'm really excited that, that that I said yes to things because by saying yes, it's a fork in the road.

00:35:06Aoife Dunican

You mean to take one fork, but you go another and then you meet somebody else

00:35:09Aoife Dunican

and it's so important. Although COVID was, you know, one of those awful times, nothing would be getting out and about meeting people.

00:35:18Susy Kennefick

OK. Well, it sounds like an extraordinary success story so far and plenty of exciting times ahead, no doubt. Also, thank you for those those style tips and those those really fascinating.

00:35:27Áine Maguire

Yes.

00:35:29Susy Kennefick

Insights into your business and and to the personal development side of things.

00:35:33Áine Maguire

As well, yes, Aoife Dunican, Style Bob, keep on saying yes.

00:35:37Aoife Dunican

Thank you. Áine, Thank you Susy.

00:35:44Susy Kennefick

OK. Áine, so really, really fascinating to talk to Aoife about her, her career as a style consultant and motivational speaker. What in particular do you think maybe came through in that discussion that is relevant to our decision making philosophy as we like to say?

00:36:01Áine Maguire

I I think this is something we've seen with some of.

00:36:04Áine Maguire

Our other guests.

00:36:05Áine Maguire

It's I think the question is, when did the decision start?

00:36:08Áine Maguire

and for me, Aoife is someone that's been working up to that decision in many ways since she arrived with her Style Bob hair on the planet and her her competence and confidence to, to quote one of our other guests has has grown

00:36:28Áine Maguire

All the way through her life. This is something that is, I think, her business is an expression

00:36:34Áine Maguire

Of passions and interests and values that she's been developing all her life.

00:36:39Susy Kennefick

Yeah, this this.

00:36:41Susy Kennefick

Idea of decision making as a continuum is something that we have seen with a lot of our guests and sometimes it's it's really not about making a particular decision. You know very, very quickly at a certain point in time it is it's the case that the choices

00:36:54Susy Kennefick

we make in life are influenced by

00:36:57Susy Kennefick

Our values, our beliefs, and our passions, and the things that we're interested in, and I think her story is a very clear example of that and but also as as somebody again who you know, left school and left college and went into a particular industry more of a should say conventional type of job. But ultimately her passion led her to go back into the area that she always wanted to work.

00:37:17Susy Kennefick

And I wonder, you know, how much do you think her growing confidence over the years played into, you know that that decision and ultimately to get to where

00:37:24Susy Kennefick

She is now?

00:37:26Áine Maguire

I think so. I'm just listening to you there. I'm thinking of the the very staging posts along the way, the family background, the interesting clothes, but also the later roles

00:37:38Áine Maguire

That she had, and how she learned about presence, you know, was very interesting. Listen to her talk about the celebrities she worked with. But what she took away from that was not a starry eyed love of celebrities but was.

00:37:51Áine Maguire

The understanding of how to create presence and how to use presence. So I think with every every piece of education she's had, every job experience she's had, she's picked up things along the way that have actually enabled her to create a unique product offering, which is what

00:38:11Áine Maguire

she has today, I think that's pretty much how most people roll through life. I think it really shows the importance of work psychologically in life. That work is somewhere where we express talents, values, skills, things. You know that we've picked up along the way and I think

00:38:30Áine Maguire

If you're not working, it can be hard to find a proper stage to express some of those things on.

00:38:38Susy Kennefick

I think Aoife is also she's quite courageous in a way because she's happy to speak to what might be for some people a an unpalatable reality about the workplace, which is that no matter what people say, it does actually matter

00:38:50Susy Kennefick

How you show up how you look, how you present yourself, what you're what you wear and and how you can comport yourself that all feeds into this perception. Maybe of what we might call your personal brand and you know, in a professional environment it you do have to be suited and booted.

00:39:06Susy Kennefick

If you are going to make the right impression, and if you're going to go earn people's respect and I think maybe in recent years we have moved somewhat away from that idea, but certainly when it comes to confidence and projecting confidence and of course that is a massive part of good decision making, you need to feel a certain way in your own skin. And she talked about clothes as armour.

00:39:26Susy Kennefick

As a as a way of achieving that.

00:39:29Susy Kennefick

And I do think that is really, really important and it's not something maybe that we speak about enough

00:39:32Áine Maguire

I think that's right. And I think she said that, you know, the clothes give you confidence and that you. But the first thing you have to do is make yourself feel confident. But that's a that's an ongoing task. That's not something you do once. And it reminded me, I often ask people when I'm working with them.

00:39:49Áine Maguire

You know when you finish doing that talk or when you leave the room, what do you want people to think about you and maybe one of the questions I need to ask them.

00:39:56Áine Maguire

Is when you turn up what you want people to think about you because you know Aoife showed how, how you turn up not just the physical, the clothes you wear, but how the clothes you're wearing make you feel. It doesn't matter what your clothes are, but it's how they make you feel and the energy that you give when you're in the room.

00:40:17Áine Maguire

Is is the first experience people have of you before you open your mouth? 

00:40:23Susy Kennefick

Yeah, and and that was the moral of the story in Devil Wears Prada, wasn't it? And.

00:40:24Susy Kennefick

Hathaway's character, she was very dubious about the idea that it was important to dress well, and by the end of the movie, I think she was. She was.

00:40:30Susy Kennefick

To that, a decent jacket and a nice pair of shoes made.

00:40:33Susy Kennefick

All the difference Well it turns.

00:40:34Susy Kennefick

Out she was right and yeah, something else that I thought was was useful to maybe just reflect on a little bit about Aoife's story is she is yet another person actually who managed to should I say exploit the the the chaos in that she said that.

00:40:50Susy Kennefick

The business grew quite quickly because she was able to take it online.

00:40:54Susy Kennefick

I mean, and I I wonder what you think that says about people, you know, being able to exploit certain circumstances to make certain decisions and and not be phased by challenges or be phased by factors that come at them that they didn't anticipate.

00:41:06Áine Maguire

I think that's a great point. I think's Aoife's point here was that it's it's not the events that happened. It's how you respond to them.

00:41:15Áine Maguire

And she has such conviction and such belief in the power of image in in what she does and the opportunities and the possibilities it gives her clients

00:41:25Áine Maguire

That for her COVID turned into an opportunity. She could have just gone home and put the duvet over her head and come back out four years later. But she she kept going with it and the opportunities came to her because she had had the courage to set up and because that was her focus. So I think there's a couple of things in that. It's.

00:41:45Áine Maguire

What you focus on is what happens, and that's really important, you know, in coaching it's because that's what coaching does. It helps people to focus on things that really are important to them. And really when you focus on something that's really important to you, it's.

00:41:59Áine Maguire

At time you give it energy and it's where new things start happening that weren't happening before.

00:42:04Susy Kennefick

And she talked a lot about saying yes to things, and I think there's something in that as well for people that you could almost describe that as being on your edge and getting to that point where you're you're just about poised to take a leap. And of course, we're always going to be fearful about that. And we have doubts. And and it can be a scary place to be. But really, when it comes to decision making, we do need to make a leap of faith.

00:42:24Susy Kennefick

And something that she said, which I think is is a really important message to emphasise to people when it comes to the role that fear plays in decision making. She actually said that she's not as fearful now as she used to be.

00:42:35Susy Kennefick

So when it comes to doing those speaking gigs, it comes to, you know, standing up in front of a lot of people. She doesn't feel the fear in the same way anymore. And I think what that says and and it's something again is go just like to remind people when you do something enough, the more pathways in your brain change and actually it becomes a habit. So fear can dissipate over time. And behavioural change is possible.

00:42:55Susy Kennefick

If you're willing to say yes enough times and keep doing it, we don't always have to accept our limitations as being permanent. We can certainly grow and develop and evolve if we are willing to just say yes

00:43:04Áine Maguire

Yes, it's like one of my clients says you got to do the reps

00:43:08Susy Kennefick

Absolutely.

00:43:10Susy Kennefick

Well, I think that might be enough

00:43:12Susy Kennefick

For today, But Yeah. Really, really fascinating conversation with Aoife and some some fantastic style as well as business lessons and and you know great insights on decision making as always so on. Áine, until next time this has been 37%.

00:43:26Áine Maguire

That's a wrap

Ending music playing quietly behind for final wrap up

00:43:31Susy Kennefick

Thank you for listening to the 37%. If you want to know more about us, what we do and how we might be able to help you with key decision you're considering, check out our website at www.persuasion.ie.